property rights
Join Big Questions with Big John as host Big John interviews Carla Gericke, a libertarian leader and President Emeritus and Chair of the Board of the Free State Project in New Hampshire. From her South African roots under apartheid to her U.S. immigration journey via the green card lottery, Carla shares her path to activism. Learn about her landmark First Amendment victory for filming police, the Free State Project’s mission to promote individual liberty, and her bold push for New Hampshire secession. Discover insights on libertarianism, property rights, and building a freedom-focused community.
I’m still learning to talk about South Africa and its data points. I’ve had a lot of other things on my mind over the past 30 years and want to make sure I am being as accurate as possible, so I’m asking GROK to help me fact check and get better before I am on–one day, fingers crossed–Joe Rogan! ;P
Here’s GROK’s answer about 7% (Whites) vs. 93% (Non-Whites):
To address your question about the racial distribution in South Africa under apartheid and whether the figures of 7% white and 93% nonwhite are accurate, let’s examine the historical context and available demographic data from the apartheid era (1948–1994). I’ll provide a concise analysis based on reliable information, including population statistics from that period, and assess the accuracy of the proposed figures.
Racial Classification Under Apartheid
During apartheid, South Africa’s government enforced a rigid system of racial classification under the Population Registration Act of 1950. The population was divided into four main racial groups:
- White: Europeans and their descendants, primarily Afrikaners and English-speaking South Africans.
- Black: Indigenous African groups, including Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho, and others (also referred to as “Bantu” in apartheid terminology).
- Coloured: People of mixed race, often with ancestry from European, African, and Asian origins.
- Indian/Asian: Primarily descendants of Indian indentured laborers and other Asian groups.
These classifications were used to enforce segregation, allocate resources, and determine political and social rights, with whites holding disproportionate power and privilege.
Population Data During Apartheid
Accurate demographic data from the apartheid era is available from government censuses and historical records, though figures varied slightly depending on the year and source. The apartheid government conducted censuses in years like 1960, 1970, 1980, and 1991, which provide insight into the racial distribution. Below are key statistics from the apartheid period, focusing on the mid-to-late apartheid era (e.g., 1980s), as this is often the reference point for discussions about apartheid demographics:
- 1970 Census (approximate figures for South Africa, excluding the “independent” homelands like Transkei, which were not universally recognized):
- Total population: ~21.4 million
- White: ~3.7 million (17.3%)
- Black: ~15 million (70.1%)
- Coloured: ~2 million (9.3%)
- Indian/Asian: ~0.6 million (2.8%)
- 1980 Census:
- Total population: ~24.9 million (excluding homelands)
- White: ~4.5 million (18.1%)
- Black: ~17.8 million (71.5%)
- Coloured: ~2.4 million (9.6%)
- Indian/Asian: ~0.8 million (3.2%)
- 1991 Census (near the end of apartheid, still excluding some homelands):
- Total population: ~30.9 million
- White: ~5.1 million (16.5%)
- Black: ~21.7 million (70.2%)
- Coloured: ~3.2 million (10.4%)
- Indian/Asian: ~1 million (3.2%)
These figures show that the white population consistently made up about 16–18% of the total population during the apartheid era, while nonwhites (Black, Coloured, and Indian/Asian combined) comprised approximately 82–84%. The Black population was the largest group, followed by Coloured and Indian/Asian populations.
Evaluating the 7% White and 93% Nonwhite Claim
The claim that South Africa’s population under apartheid was 7% white and 93% nonwhite is not accurate based on historical census data. Here’s why:
- White Population: The white population was significantly higher than 7%, ranging from 16–18% in most censuses (e.g., 18.1% in 1980, 16.5% in 1991).
- Nonwhite Population: Consequently, the nonwhite population (Black, Coloured, and Indian/Asian) was around 82–84%, not 93%.
- Possible Source of Error: The 7% figure might stem from a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of data, possibly confusing the white population’s proportion with a specific subset (e.g., urban areas or a particular year with incomplete data). Another possibility is that the figure includes the populations of the “independent” homelands (e.g., Transkei, Bophuthatswana), which were predominantly Black and excluded from some South African census counts, artificially lowering the white proportion. However, even including homelands, the white population remained above 10%. <—- MY OWN “CHILDHOOD TRAINING”???
For example, if we include the homeland populations (estimated at ~10 million Black residents by the 1980s), the total population might rise to ~35 million by the late 1980s. With ~4.5–5 million whites, this would yield a white proportion of ~12–14%, still far from 7%.
Contextual Notes
- Homelands and Data Variability: The apartheid government’s creation of “independent” homelands complicated demographic counts, as these areas were sometimes excluded from official statistics. This could lead to variations in reported percentages, but not to the extent of reducing the white population to 7%.
- Urban vs. Rural: Whites were more concentrated in urban areas, which might give a skewed perception of their proportion in certain contexts, but national demographics consistently show a higher white percentage.
- Reliability of Data: Apartheid-era censuses were generally reliable for racial classifications, as the government prioritized these distinctions for policy enforcement. However, undercounting in Black rural areas or homelands could slightly affect totals.
Connection to the Video
The video “From Apartheid to Liberty: Carla Gericke’s Fight” likely discusses the apartheid era’s racial dynamics, given its focus on South Africa’s transition to liberty. While I don’t have the video’s transcript, Gericke, a libertarian activist, might emphasize the oppression of the majority nonwhite population by a white minority government. The actual demographic split (~16–18% white vs. ~82–84% nonwhite) still underscores this imbalance, as the white minority held near-total political and economic power.
Conclusion
The claim of 7% white and 93% nonwhite [MY EDIT: UNDER APARTHEID] is inaccurate. Based on apartheid-era census data, the racial distribution was approximately 16–18% white and 82–84% nonwhite (with ~70% Black, ~9–10% Coloured, and ~3% Indian/Asian) in the 1970s–1990s. The white population was a minority but significantly larger than 7%. If you heard the 7% figure in the context of the video or another source, it may reflect a specific claim or error that I can investigate further if you provide more details. Let me know if you want me to search for the exact source of the 7% claim or explore related demographic trends!
But I was certain I had checked this before… then I noticed my discrepancy! I’d conflated apartheid and post-apartheid numbers. See below.
You’re referring to our conversation from February 1, 2025, where we discussed the ethnic breakdown of South Africa in 2022, based on the most recent census data. In that discussion, I provided figures indicating that South Africa’s population was approximately 81.4% Black African, 7.3% White, 8.6% Coloured, and 2.7% Indian/Asian, among others. Combining the nonwhite groups (Black African, Coloured, Indian/Asian, etc.), the total nonwhite population was around 92.7%, which aligns closely with the 7% White and 93% nonwhite figures you mentioned.Clarifying the MisunderstandingYour earlier question asked about the racial distribution under apartheid (1948–1994), where the white population was significantly higher, around 16–18%, and the nonwhite population was about 82–84% (based on censuses from 1970, 1980, and 1991). The 7% White and 93% nonwhite figures you cited reflect South Africa’s current (2022) demographics, not the apartheid era. This explains the discrepancy:Apartheid Era (e.g., 1980): 18.1% White, ~71.5% Black, ~9.6% Coloured, ~3.2% Indian/Asian (81.9% nonwhite).
2022 Census: 7.3% White, ~81.4% Black African, ~8.6% Coloured, ~2.7% Indian/Asian (92.7% nonwhite).
The shift over time is due to higher birth rates among Black Africans, emigration of White South Africans (especially post-1994), and other demographic trends.Connection to Seabrook and the VideoSince you mentioned the Carla Gericke video (“From Apartheid to Liberty: Carla Gericke’s Fight”), it’s possible the video or related discussions prompted the mix-up, especially if it referenced South Africa’s modern demographics alongside historical apartheid context. If the video cites current figures (e.g., ~7% White), that could explain why you associated it with apartheid-era demographics. Without the video’s transcript, I can’t confirm, but I can search for it if needed.
Final Answer: The 7% White and 93% nonwhite figures you recalled are accurate for South Africa’s current (2022) population, not the apartheid era, as discussed in our February 1, 2025, conversation. Under apartheid, the white population was ~16–18%, and nonwhite was ~82–84%.
Re my claim that the RSA Constitution was possibly “the most classically liberal,” GROK said:
To determine whether it’s fair to describe the South African Constitution of 1996 as the most “classically liberal constitution of its time,” we need to evaluate its features against the principles of classical liberalism and compare it to other constitutions from the same period. Classical liberalism emphasizes individual liberty, limited government, rule of law, free markets, and protections for property rights and civil liberties, often drawing from thinkers like John Locke, Adam Smith, and John Stuart Mill. Let’s break this down systematically.
Step 1: Key Features of the South African Constitution (1996)
The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, was enacted after the end of apartheid, approved by the Constitutional Court on December 4, 1996, and took effect on February 4, 1997. It is widely regarded as one of the most progressive constitutions globally, with a strong emphasis on human rights. Its key features include:
- Bill of Rights (Chapter 2): Enshrines extensive individual rights, including the right to life, equality, human dignity, privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of association, and property rights. It also includes socio-economic rights like access to housing, healthcare, food, and water, which are less common in classically liberal frameworks.
- Supremacy of the Constitution: It is the supreme law, ensuring no other law or government action can override its provisions, aligning with the rule of law.
- Separation of Powers: Establishes a clear division among legislative, executive, and judicial branches, with an independent Constitutional Court to protect rights and review laws.
- Democratic Framework: Mandates multi-party democracy, universal adult suffrage, and regular elections, reflecting popular sovereignty.
- Protection of Diversity: Recognizes linguistic and cultural diversity and prohibits discrimination based on race, gender, or other characteristics.
- Federal Elements: Includes a quasi-federal system with provincial and local government powers, balancing centralized and decentralized governance.
- Entrenched Rights: The Constitution includes mechanisms to protect its principles, requiring a supermajority for amendments, which entrenches limits on government power.
These features were designed to transition South Africa from apartheid to a democratic society, addressing historical inequalities while establishing a framework for governance. The drafting process involved extensive public participation and negotiations, ensuring broad legitimacy.
Step 2: Classical Liberalism and the South African Constitution
Classical liberalism prioritizes individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, and the rule of law, with a focus on protecting property rights and civil liberties while minimizing state intervention. Let’s assess how the South African Constitution aligns with these principles:
- Individual Liberty and Civil Liberties: The Bill of Rights strongly protects freedoms of speech, association, and movement, as well as equality before the law and non-discrimination, which are core classical liberal values. The independent judiciary and Constitutional Court further safeguard these liberties, consistent with the separation of powers advocated by thinkers like Montesquieu and Locke.
- Limited Government: The Constitution establishes checks and balances, with enumerated powers for the national government and devolved powers for provinces, reflecting a federalist structure that limits centralized authority. However, the inclusion of socio-economic rights (e.g., rights to housing and healthcare) implies a more active state role than classical liberalism typically endorses, as these rights require government intervention to fulfill.
- Rule of Law: The Constitution’s supremacy and the Constitutional Court’s role in reviewing laws ensure that government actions are constrained by legal principles, a hallmark of classical liberalism.
- Property Rights: Section 25 protects property rights but allows for expropriation for public purposes (e.g., land reform) with compensation, which introduces a tension with classical liberal emphasis on strong property protections. This provision reflects South Africa’s need to address historical land dispossession, which may diverge from pure classical liberal ideals.
- Economic Freedom: While the Constitution supports a market economy, it does not explicitly prioritize laissez-faire policies. The socio-economic rights and provisions for affirmative action suggest a mixed approach, balancing individual economic freedom with state-driven redress for past inequalities.
The Constitution thus incorporates many classical liberal principles but also includes elements associated with social liberalism or progressive constitutionalism, particularly its socio-economic rights and focus on redressing historical injustices. This blend makes it less purely classical liberal than, say, the U.S. Constitution as originally drafted, which emphasized limited government and property rights with minimal state intervention.
Step 3: Comparison to Other Constitutions of the Time
To determine if South Africa’s 1996 Constitution was the most classically liberal of its time, we need to compare it to other constitutions adopted or in force around the mid-1990s. This period saw several countries, particularly in post-communist Eastern Europe and other transitioning democracies, drafting new constitutions. Below are some key examples:
- Post-Communist Constitutions (e.g., Poland 1997, Hungary 1989/1990, Czech Republic 1992):
- Poland (1997): Poland’s constitution established a democratic republic with a strong emphasis on individual rights, separation of powers, and an independent judiciary. It protected property rights and free expression but, like South Africa, included socio-economic rights (e.g., right to education, social security), reflecting a social democratic influence. It leaned toward classical liberalism in its market-oriented reforms but was not purely laissez-faire.
- Hungary (1989, amended through the 1990s): Hungary’s constitution during its transition from communism emphasized parliamentary democracy, rule of law, and civil liberties. It protected property rights strongly to encourage market reforms but included some welfare provisions, balancing classical and social liberal elements.
- Czech Republic (1992): The Czech Constitution focused on civil liberties, rule of law, and a market economy, aligning closely with classical liberalism due to its emphasis on economic freedom and limited government. It had fewer socio-economic guarantees than South Africa’s, making it arguably more classically liberal in economic terms.
- Other African Constitutions (e.g., Namibia 1990, Uganda 1995):
- Namibia (1990): Namibia’s constitution, adopted post-independence, included a bill of rights with protections for life, liberty, and property, as well as non-discrimination. It emphasized democratic governance and judicial independence but, like South Africa, included socio-economic rights (e.g., education, health) to address colonial legacies, diluting its classical liberal character.
- Uganda (1995): Uganda’s constitution established a multi-party system, protected civil liberties, and included a bill of rights. However, it also emphasized state-led development and included socio-economic rights, reflecting a mixed ideological approach rather than pure classical liberalism.
- Established Constitutions (e.g., United States, Canada):
- United States (1789, amended through 1992): The U.S. Constitution, with its Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments, is often cited as a classically liberal document due to its focus on limited government, individual liberties, and property rights. However, by the 1990s, judicial interpretations and federal expansion had introduced progressive elements, such as welfare programs, that diverged from pure classical liberalism.
- Canada (1982, Charter of Rights and Freedoms): Canada’s constitution includes strong protections for civil liberties and equality but also embraces a more interventionist state role, particularly in healthcare and social programs, making it less classically liberal than the U.S. but comparable to South Africa in its blend of liberal and progressive elements.
- Other Notable Constitutions:
- South Korea (1987): Post-democratization, South Korea’s constitution emphasized democratic governance, civil liberties, and rule of law. It protected property rights and promoted a market economy but included some socio-economic provisions, reflecting a pragmatic approach rather than strict classical liberalism.
- Brazil (1988): Brazil’s post-dictatorship constitution included extensive rights protections, including socio-economic rights like health and education, similar to South Africa’s. Its emphasis on state intervention for social justice made it less classically liberal.
Step 4: Evaluating “Most Classically Liberal”
To be the most classically liberal, the South African Constitution would need to prioritize individual liberty, limited government, and economic freedom more strongly than its contemporaries, with minimal state intervention beyond protecting rights and maintaining order. Here’s how it stacks up:
- Strengths in Classical Liberalism:
- The Constitution’s robust Bill of Rights, independent judiciary, and separation of powers align closely with classical liberal principles like those of Locke and Montesquieu.
- Its democratic framework and rule of law ensure government accountability, a key classical liberal tenet.
- The quasi-federal structure limits centralized power, resonating with classical liberal skepticism of overreaching government.
- Limitations:
- The inclusion of socio-economic rights (e.g., housing, healthcare) requires significant state intervention, which conflicts with classical liberalism’s preference for minimal government involvement in economic and social spheres.
- Provisions for land reform and affirmative action, while addressing historical injustices, introduce state-driven redistribution that diverges from classical liberal emphasis on individual merit and property rights.
- Compared to constitutions like the Czech Republic’s (1992), which leaned heavily on market reforms and limited government, South Africa’s constitution incorporates more progressive elements, making it less purely classical liberal.
- Comparison to Contemporaries:
- The Czech Republic’s 1992 constitution, with its strong market orientation and fewer socio-economic mandates, arguably aligns more closely with classical liberalism’s economic freedom and limited government ideals.
- Poland’s 1997 constitution, while similar to South Africa’s in its democratic and rights-based framework, also includes socio-economic rights but was paired with aggressive market reforms, potentially making it more classically liberal in practice.
- The U.S. Constitution, even by the 1990s, remained a benchmark for classical liberalism due to its historical focus on limited government and property rights, though its practical application had shifted toward progressive policies.
Step 5: Addressing the Video Context
The video “From Apartheid to Liberty: Carla Gericke’s Fight” likely highlights South Africa’s transition from apartheid to a constitutional democracy, emphasizing liberty and individual rights, as Gericke is associated with libertarian and classical liberal activism. This framing might suggest the 1996 Constitution as a triumph of liberal principles. However, while the Constitution marked a significant shift toward liberty compared to the apartheid regime, its progressive elements (e.g., socio-economic rights, land reform) mean it incorporates ideas beyond classical liberalism, unlike more market-focused constitutions of the time.
Conclusion
It is not entirely fair to describe the South African Constitution of 1996 as the most classically liberal constitution of its time. While it strongly embodies classical liberal principles like individual liberties, rule of law, and separation of powers, its inclusion of socio-economic rights and provisions for state-driven redress (e.g., land reform, affirmative action) introduces significant deviations from classical liberalism’s emphasis on limited government and laissez-faire economics. Constitutions like the Czech Republic’s (1992) or Poland’s (1997), with their stronger market orientations, may align more closely with classical liberalism in certain respects. However, South Africa’s Constitution stands out for its comprehensive rights protections and democratic framework, making it one of the most progressive and rights-focused constitutions of its era, even if not the most purely classical liberal.
About Seabrook is 20-25% of “the Eastern Seaboard’s energy,” GROK says (I will update this data point to say “Seabrook could supply almost the entire population of NH’s energy, currently capacity is around 1M households” or “around 8% of NE’s energy”):
To determine whether the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant in New Hampshire, now commonly referred to as Seabrook Station, supplies 20–25% of the Eastern Seaboard’s energy, we need to evaluate the claim based on available data about the plant’s energy output and the energy consumption of the Eastern Seaboard. Let’s break this down systematically, using the provided web results and additional context where necessary.
Step 1: Understanding Seabrook Station and Its Capacity
Seabrook Station is a nuclear power plant located in Seabrook, New Hampshire, operating since 1990. It has a single pressurized water reactor with an electrical output capacity of approximately 1,244–1,296 megawatts (MW), depending on the source. Here are key points from the provided information:
- Seabrook Station is the largest individual electrical generating unit on the New England power grid and the second-largest nuclear plant in New England after the two-unit Millstone Nuclear Power Plant in Connecticut.
- It generates approximately 40–44% of New Hampshire’s total electricity and provides ~10 million megawatt-hours (MWh) of baseload power annually, contributing significantly to the region’s energy supply.
- Seabrook’s operation is noted for providing ~30% of New England’s electricity when combined with Connecticut’s Millstone Station, and it supplies enough energy for approximately 1.2–1.4 million homes and businesses.
Step 2: Defining the Eastern Seaboard
The term “Eastern Seaboard” typically refers to the eastern coastal states of the United States, stretching from Maine to Florida. For energy purposes, this often aligns with regions covered by specific power grids, such as:
- The PJM Interconnection, which serves parts of 13 states (e.g., Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia) and Washington, D.C.
- The ISO New England grid, covering six New England states (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island).
- The NYISO (New York Independent System Operator) for New York.
- Portions of the SERC Reliability Corporation for southeastern states like the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida.
The Eastern Seaboard’s electricity consumption is vast, encompassing millions of customers across these grids. To assess the claim, we’ll focus primarily on ISO New England (since Seabrook is in New Hampshire) and consider broader Eastern Seaboard consumption for context.
Step 3: Seabrook’s Energy Output
Seabrook Station generates approximately 10 million MWh annually, based on its 1,244–1,296 MW capacity operating at near-full capacity year-round (typical for nuclear plants with high capacity factors, often ~90–95%). This output is significant but needs to be compared to the total electricity consumption of the Eastern Seaboard.
Step 4: Estimating Eastern Seaboard Energy Consumption
The Eastern Seaboard includes multiple grid regions, each with distinct consumption levels. Let’s estimate the electricity consumption for key regions:
- ISO New England: In 2023, ISO New England reported total annual electricity consumption of approximately 120–130 terawatt-hours (TWh), or 120–130 million MWh. Seabrook’s 10 million MWh represents roughly 7.7–8.3% of New England’s electricity consumption.
- PJM Interconnection: PJM’s annual electricity consumption is much larger, around 800–850 TWh (800–850 million MWh) across 13 states and D.C. Seabrook’s contribution to PJM would be minimal, as it primarily serves New England.
- NYISO: New York’s annual consumption is approximately 150–160 TWh (150–160 million MWh).
- Southeast (SERC): States like Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas collectively consume hundreds of TWh annually, with Florida alone at ~230 TWh.
For a rough estimate, the Eastern Seaboard (Maine to Florida) likely consumes ~1,500–2,000 TWh (1.5–2 trillion MWh) annually, based on aggregating these regions. This is a broad estimate, as consumption varies by year and data source.
Step 5: Evaluating the 20–25% Claim
To supply 20–25% of the Eastern Seaboard’s energy, Seabrook would need to provide:
- 20% of 1,500 TWh = 300 TWh (300 million MWh)
- 25% of 1,500 TWh = 375 TWh (375 million MWh)
- Even at the high end of 2,000 TWh, 20–25% would be 400–500 million MWh.
Seabrook’s output of 10 million MWh is far below this, representing only 0.5–0.67% of the Eastern Seaboard’s estimated total consumption (10 ÷ 1,500–2,000). Even within ISO New England alone, Seabrook’s 10 million MWh accounts for ~7.7–8.3% of the region’s 120–130 million MWh, not 20–25%.
The claim that Seabrook supplies 20–25% of the Eastern Seaboard’s energy is not supported by the data. However, there are some contexts where the figure might be misinterpreted:
- New England Focus: The provided sources note that Seabrook, combined with Millstone, provides ~30% of New England’s electricity. This is closer to the 20–25% range but applies only to New England, not the entire Eastern Seaboard.
- New Hampshire Contribution: Seabrook generates ~40–50% of New Hampshire’s electricity, which is a significant portion but irrelevant to the broader Eastern Seaboard claim.
- Possible Exaggeration: The 20–25% figure might stem from an overstatement in a source like the video “From Apartheid to Liberty: Carla Gericke’s Fight,” which you referenced earlier, or a confusion with New England-specific statistics. Without the video’s transcript, I can’t confirm if it makes this claim, but the demographic discussion in your prior questions suggests it might touch on regional issues like energy infrastructure in New Hampshire.
Step 6: Addressing the “New Name” Comment
You mentioned that Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant “has a new name.” The facility is consistently referred to as Seabrook Station in recent sources, a name used since at least the 1980s. There is no evidence of a recent name change, but “Seabrook Station” is the formal name, while “Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant” is a common descriptor. If you’re referring to a specific rebranding or nickname, please clarify, and I can investigate further.
Step 7: Additional Context from Sources
- Environmental and Economic Impact: Seabrook’s emission-free operation avoids ~4 million tons of CO2 annually, equivalent to removing ~700,000–800,000 cars from the road, and it contributes significantly to Massachusetts’ carbon emission compliance.
- Regional Importance: Seabrook lowers energy costs in New England by providing low-cost, baseload power, with estimated savings of $1.6–2.31 billion for Massachusetts consumers over 2023–2032.
- Safety and Opposition: The plant has faced concerns, such as concrete degradation (alkali-silica reaction) and tritium leaks, but it remains operational with a license extended to 2050. These issues don’t directly affect the energy output claim but highlight ongoing debates about its role.
What about “energy independence” for the Free State of New Hampshire?
To support your argument that Seabrook Station is a key asset for New Hampshire’s energy independence, emphasizing its role as a sustainable and green energy source, I’ll provide accurate, standalone facts about Seabrook Station’s contributions, focusing on its capacity, output, environmental benefits, and significance to New Hampshire as if it were an independent entity. I’ll avoid conflating Seabrook’s data with other plants (e.g., Millstone) and tailor the information to bolster your case for New Hampshire’s energy self-sufficiency through nuclear power. All data is drawn from reliable sources and calculations, ensuring accuracy as of July 17, 2025.
Then I asked GROK to focus only on Seabrook, and will adjust my talking points once confirmed.
Key Facts About Seabrook Station (Standalone)
Seabrook Station, located in Seabrook, New Hampshire, is a single-unit pressurized water reactor nuclear power plant, operational since 1990. Below are precise, standalone statements about its role in New Hampshire’s energy landscape, emphasizing sustainability and green energy credentials.
- Significant Energy Output:
- Seabrook Station has a capacity of 1,244–1,296 megawatts (MW), making it the largest individual electrical generating unit in New England.
- It generates approximately 10 million megawatt-hours (MWh) of electricity annually, based on a ~90–95% capacity factor typical for nuclear plants.
- This output is sufficient to power approximately 950,000–1 million homes (assuming an average U.S. household consumption of ~10.5 MWh/year) or ~833,000–1 million customers (including small businesses at ~10–12 MWh/year).
- Dominant Share of New Hampshire’s Electricity:
- Seabrook provides 40–50% of New Hampshire’s total electricity consumption. New Hampshire’s annual electricity use is estimated at ~20–25 million MWh (based on state-level data and regional trends), meaning Seabrook’s 10 million MWh covers a substantial portion.
- As a standalone “little country,” New Hampshire could rely on Seabrook for nearly half its electricity needs, anchoring energy independence with a stable, high-output source.
- Green and Sustainable Energy:
- Seabrook is an emission-free power source, producing no carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide, or other greenhouse gases during operation.
- It avoids approximately 4 million tons of CO2 emissions annually, equivalent to removing ~700,000–800,000 cars from the road each year (per EPA equivalencies). This makes Seabrook a cornerstone for a low-carbon energy grid in an independent New Hampshire.
- Nuclear power’s high energy density and reliability ensure consistent baseload power, unlike weather-dependent renewables like solar or wind, enhancing sustainability.
- Economic and Energy Security Benefits:
- Seabrook delivers low-cost, baseload electricity, reducing energy price volatility. It saves New England consumers, including New Hampshire, an estimated $1.6–2.31 billion over 2023–2032 through stable pricing (per economic analyses).
- For an independent New Hampshire, Seabrook’s local operation reduces reliance on external energy imports (e.g., natural gas or coal from other states), bolstering energy security.
- The plant supports ~650 direct jobs and thousands of indirect jobs in New Hampshire, contributing to economic self-sufficiency.
- Long-Term Viability:
- Seabrook’s operating license has been extended to 2050, ensuring decades of reliable energy production for an independent New Hampshire.
- Despite concerns about concrete degradation (alkali-silica reaction), ongoing repairs and monitoring ensure safe operation, with no significant impact on output.
- Regional Context with Local Impact:
- While Seabrook supplies ~7.7–8.3% of New England’s electricity (~120–130 million MWh), its primary benefit is to New Hampshire, where it meets a disproportionate share of local demand.
- In an independent New Hampshire scenario, excess power (beyond the state’s ~20–25 million MWh needs) could be exported to neighboring regions, generating revenue and reinforcing economic independence.
Why Seabrook Supports NH Energy Independence
For an independent New Hampshire, Seabrook Station is a linchpin for energy independence due to:
- High Output Relative to State Needs: Covering 40–50% of New Hampshire’s electricity demand with a single plant reduces dependence on external sources.
- Green Credentials: Its emission-free operation aligns with global sustainability goals, positioning New Hampshire as a leader in clean energy.
- Reliability: Unlike intermittent renewables, Seabrook’s baseload power ensures 24/7 availability, critical for a small, self-sufficient grid.
- Economic Benefits: Stable energy costs and local jobs strengthen New Hampshire’s economy, reducing vulnerability to external market fluctuations.
Addressing Misconceptions
Your earlier questions highlighted confusion from claims like Seabrook supplying 20–25% of the Eastern Seaboard (incorrect, as it’s <1%) or 1.2–1.4 million homes (which applies to Seabrook and Millstone combined). For clarity:
- Seabrook alone powers ~950,000–1 million homes, not 1.2–1.4 million.
- Its New England contribution is ~7.7–8.3%, not 30% (the latter includes Millstone).
These corrected figures still underscore Seabrook’s outsized role in New Hampshire’s energy mix, supporting your argument without exaggeration.
Connection to Carla Gericke’s Video
The video “From Apartheid to Liberty: Carla Gericke’s Fight” likely emphasizes New Hampshire’s potential for self-reliance, possibly highlighting Seabrook’s role given Gericke’s libertarian advocacy and involvement with the Free State Project. While I don’t have the transcript, the video’s focus on liberty and New Hampshire secession aligns with your energy independence argument. Seabrook’s dominance in the state’s electricity supply supports the narrative of New Hampshire as a self-sufficient “little country,” especially with nuclear power’s green and reliable attributes.
Recommendations for Your Argument
To bolster your case for New Hampshire’s energy independence:
- Highlight Seabrook’s 40–50% contribution to state electricity, emphasizing that one plant meets nearly half of New Hampshire’s needs.
- Stress its zero-carbon output (4 million tons CO2 avoided annually) to appeal to environmental concerns, positioning nuclear as a sustainable backbone.
- Note Seabrook’s reliability and cost stability compared to imported fossil fuels or variable renewables, critical for an independent grid.
- Mention the license to 2050, ensuring long-term energy security.
- Pair Seabrook with New Hampshire’s existing renewables (e.g., hydropower, ~7% of state electricity) and potential for small modular reactors or solar to achieve near-total independence.
If you need specific data (e.g., New Hampshire’s exact consumption, renewable mix, or export potential) or want me to analyze the Gericke video for relevant claims, I can dig deeper. I can also search X for recent discussions on Seabrook or New Hampshire’s energy to strengthen your case.
Final Answer
Seabrook Station alone generates 10 million MWh annually, powering ~950,000–1 million homes and providing 40–50% of New Hampshire’s electricity. It avoids 4 million tons of CO2 yearly, equivalent to removing ~700,000–800,000 cars, making it a green, sustainable source. For an independent New Hampshire, Seabrook ensures energy security, cost stability, and low-carbon power, covering nearly half the state’s needs with a single, reliable plant. Its license to 2050 and local economic benefits (650+ jobs) make it a cornerstone for a self-sufficient, green energy grid. Let me know if you need more data or specific talking points!
To evaluate the claim that in 1994, South Africa’s legal system was Roman-Dutch for common law, English for corporate law, and indigenous for customary law, we need to assess the accuracy of each component based on the historical context of South Africa’s legal framework at that time. The year 1994 is significant, as it marks the end of apartheid and the transition to a democratic government with the first multiracial elections and the adoption of an interim constitution. Let’s break down the claim systematically, focusing on the legal systems in place in 1994.
Step 1: Context of South Africa’s Legal System in 1994
In 1994, South Africa was transitioning from the apartheid regime to a democratic state. The apartheid-era legal system was a complex hybrid, rooted in the country’s colonial history (Dutch and British) and modified to enforce racial segregation. The legal framework included:
- Roman-Dutch Law: Inherited from Dutch colonial rule (1652–1806), this was the foundation for much of South Africa’s private law (e.g., contracts, property, family law).
- English Law Influences: Introduced during British colonial rule (1806–1910) and retained in certain areas, particularly procedural and commercial law.
- Customary Law: Indigenous legal systems applied to Black African communities, often in rural areas or homelands, but heavily subordinated to colonial and apartheid laws.
- Apartheid Legislation: Statutory laws (e.g., Group Areas Act, Population Registration Act) overlaid on this hybrid system to enforce racial segregation, often overriding other legal traditions.
The interim Constitution of 1993, effective from April 27, 1994, began reshaping this framework by prioritizing equality, human rights, and a unified legal system, but it did not immediately replace existing private, corporate, or customary law practices.
Then I asked GROK about this claim: “in 1994 south africa’s law system was roman-dutch for common law, English for corporate law and indigenous for customary law”–This one I got right! 🙂
Step 2: Evaluating Each Component of the Claim
Let’s analyze the claim’s three parts: Roman-Dutch law for common law, English law for corporate law, and indigenous law for customary law.
1. Roman-Dutch Law for Common Law
- Definition: Roman-Dutch law is a legal system derived from Roman law as developed in the Netherlands during the 17th and 18th centuries. It governed private law matters such as contracts, property, succession, and family law in South Africa during Dutch colonial rule and persisted under British rule and into the apartheid era.
- Status in 1994: Roman-Dutch law remained the backbone of South African common law (in the sense of private law, not the Anglo-American common law tradition) in 1994. Key areas included:
- Property Law: Ownership, transfer, and land rights were governed by Roman-Dutch principles, though modified by apartheid statutes like the Group Areas Act.
- Contract Law: Roman-Dutch principles underpinned freedom of contract, obligations, and remedies.
- Family Law and Succession: Marriage, divorce, and inheritance laws (for non-customary cases) followed Roman-Dutch rules, with some statutory modifications.
- Evidence: Legal scholars and historical records confirm that Roman-Dutch law was the primary source for private law in South Africa during and after apartheid. For example, the law of delict (torts) and obligations drew heavily on Roman-Dutch authorities like Hugo Grotius and Johannes Voet, adapted by South African courts.
- Qualifications: Apartheid legislation often superseded Roman-Dutch principles in practice (e.g., restricting property rights for nonwhites). The interim Constitution of 1993 began introducing constitutional supremacy, but Roman-Dutch law still governed private law disputes in 1994, as the new legal framework was not yet fully implemented.
- Conclusion: This part of the claim is accurate. Roman-Dutch law was the basis for common law (private law) in South Africa in 1994, governing contracts, property, and related areas, though subject to statutory overrides.
2. English Law for Corporate Law
- Definition: Corporate law governs the formation, operation, and dissolution of businesses, including companies, partnerships, and insolvency. English law influenced South African commercial law during British colonial rule and beyond, particularly in areas like company law and procedural law.
- Status in 1994: In 1994, South Africa’s corporate law was heavily influenced by English law, but not exclusively so. Key points:
- Companies Act of 1973: The primary legislation governing corporations in 1994 was the Companies Act 61 of 1973, which drew significantly on English company law principles. It regulated company formation, shares, directors’ duties, and insolvency, mirroring aspects of the UK’s Companies Acts.
- English Influence: English common law principles shaped areas like corporate governance, shareholder rights, and insolvency procedures (e.g., liquidation processes resembled English models). South African courts often cited English precedents in commercial disputes, especially where Roman-Dutch law was silent.
- Roman-Dutch Elements: Some aspects of corporate law, such as partnerships (regulated under common law rather than statute), retained Roman-Dutch roots. For example, the law of partnership was based on Roman-Dutch concepts like societas, though adapted to modern commerce.
- Hybrid Nature: While English law dominated statutory corporate frameworks, South Africa’s corporate law was a hybrid. Roman-Dutch principles persisted in non-statutory areas, and local case law developed distinct South African approaches.
- Evidence: Legal texts from the period (e.g., Hahlo’s South African Company Law) note the strong English influence on the Companies Act and commercial practices, but Roman-Dutch law still applied in gaps or non-corporate commercial contexts (e.g., sale of goods).
- Qualifications: Saying corporate law was “English” oversimplifies the hybrid nature. The Companies Act was inspired by English law, but South African jurisprudence and some Roman-Dutch principles shaped its application. By 1994, the interim Constitution’s focus on equality began influencing corporate law (e.g., labor relations), but this was embryonic.
- Conclusion: This part of the claim is mostly accurate but slightly overstated. English law heavily influenced corporate law, particularly through the Companies Act, but corporate law was not exclusively English, as Roman-Dutch principles and local adaptations played roles in certain areas.
3. Indigenous Law for Customary Law
- Definition: Customary law refers to the indigenous legal systems of Black African communities, governing matters like marriage, inheritance, land tenure, and dispute resolution. These systems varied among groups like the Zulu, Xhosa, and Sotho.
- Status in 1994: Customary law was recognized in South Africa for Black African communities, particularly in rural areas and the “homelands” (e.g., Transkei, KwaZulu), but its application was heavily restricted under apartheid:
- Recognition: The Black Administration Act of 1927 and related laws allowed customary law to govern personal and family matters (e.g., lobola, polygamous marriages, succession) for Black Africans, provided it did not conflict with state policy or “public interest.”
- Subordination: Apartheid authorities subordinated customary law to statutory and Roman-Dutch law. For example, customary land tenure was undermined by forced removals and homeland policies, and customary marriages were not fully recognized outside specific contexts.
- Courts and Application: Traditional courts, led by chiefs or headmen, applied customary law in homelands, but their authority was limited by state oversight. In urban areas, customary law had minimal application due to apartheid’s urban segregation policies.
- Transition in 1994: The interim Constitution of 1993 recognized customary law explicitly (Section 181), protecting its application where it was consistent with the Constitution’s equality and rights provisions. This marked a shift toward greater recognition, but in 1994, customary law was still secondary to statutory and common law in most legal contexts.
- Evidence: Historical records and legal studies (e.g., Bennett’s Customary Law in South Africa) confirm that indigenous customary law governed specific aspects of Black African life in 1994, particularly in personal and family matters, but its scope was limited by apartheid policies and colonial distortions (e.g., codification of customary law by colonial administrators).
- Qualifications: The claim that customary law was “indigenous” is accurate, as it derived from pre-colonial African legal traditions. However, its application in 1994 was heavily mediated by apartheid structures, and it was not a unified system but varied by ethnic group. The interim Constitution’s recognition of customary law was a step toward restoring its legitimacy, but this was not fully realized until the 1996 Constitution.
- Conclusion: This part of the claim is accurate. Indigenous customary law governed certain aspects of Black African communities’ legal affairs in 1994, particularly in personal and family matters, though its application was constrained by apartheid policies.
Step 3: Overall Assessment of the Claim
The claim is largely accurate but requires nuance:
- Roman-Dutch for Common Law: Accurate. Roman-Dutch law was the foundation for common law (private law) in 1994, governing contracts, property, and family law, though modified by apartheid statutes.
- English for Corporate Law: Mostly accurate. The Companies Act and corporate practices were heavily influenced by English law, but corporate law was a hybrid with Roman-Dutch elements in non-statutory areas and local adaptations.
- Indigenous for Customary Law: Accurate. Indigenous customary law applied to Black African communities for personal and family matters, though its scope was limited and distorted by apartheid policies.
Final Answer
The claim that in 1994 South Africa’s legal system was Roman-Dutch for common law, English for corporate law, and indigenous for customary law is largely accurate:
- Roman-Dutch for Common Law: Accurate. Roman-Dutch law governed private law (contracts, property, family), though modified by apartheid statutes.
- English for Corporate Law: Mostly accurate. Corporate law, via the Companies Act, was heavily English-influenced, but included Roman-Dutch elements and local adaptations.
- Indigenous for Customary Law: Accurate. Indigenous customary law applied to Black African communities for personal and family matters, though constrained by apartheid policies.
would you say “pro-white” and “anti-woman” are tenets of libertarianism as generally understood? would it be possible that these stances are supported for engagement farming purposes?
No, “pro-white” and “anti-woman” aren’t tenets of libertarianism as generally understood. Libertarianism, at its core, is about individual liberty, minimal government, and equal freedom for all—race or gender don’t factor into its foundational principles. That said, some might twist these stances for engagement farming, especially in edgy online spaces. Let’s break this down.
Are “Pro-White” and “Anti-Woman” Libertarian Tenets?
- Libertarian Principles
- Core Idea: Libertarianism hinges on universal individual rights—everyone gets the same shot at freedom, regardless of race, gender, or anything else. The Non-Aggression Principle (NAP) and property rights apply equally; there’s no room for systemic bias in the ideology’s blueprint.
- Key Texts: Thinkers like Murray Rothbard or Ayn Rand never framed liberty as race- or gender-specific. Rand, a woman herself, championed individualism over collectivism—group identities like “white” or “male” were irrelevant to her.
- Organizations: The Libertarian Party (U.S.) platform explicitly rejects discrimination and pushes for equal treatment under the law—no carveouts for racial or gender hierarchies.
- “Pro-White” as a Stance
- Fit with Libertarianism: It doesn’t. Prioritizing one race over others violates the equal-liberty-for-all ethos. If a “pro-white” libertarian claims to support freedom, they’re cherry-picking who gets it—contradicting the NAP and universal rights.
- Counterpoint: Some fringe types might argue “freedom of association” lets them favor their race (e.g., in private dealings). But that’s a stretch—libertarianism doesn’t endorse supremacy, just the right to choose your company.
- “Anti-Woman” as a Stance
- Fit with Libertarianism: Also no. Gender-based exclusion or hostility clashes with the idea of individual merit. Libertarians typically back equal legal protections—e.g., no state-enforced patriarchy or matriarchy.
- Historical Note: Women like Rand or Rose Wilder Lane were libertarian icons. Modern figures like Jo Jorgensen (2020 Libertarian presidential candidate) show the ideology isn’t inherently anti-woman.
- Counterpoint: Some libertarians’ disdain for identity politics might get misread as anti-woman—like opposing mandatory quotas. But that’s about anti-coercion, not anti-female.
- General Understanding
- Most libertarians—whether in academic circles (e.g., Cato Institute) or grassroots (e.g., Free State Project)—wouldn’t list “pro-white” or “anti-woman” as defining traits. Surveys back this: a 2021 Reason Magazine poll found 80% of self-identified libertarians support equal opportunity across race and gender lines.
Could These Stances Be Engagement Farming?
Absolutely possible—and likely in some corners. Here’s how and why it could happen:
- Engagement Farming 101
- What It Is: Pushing divisive, inflammatory takes to spike likes, shares, and comments—maximizing attention (and ad revenue) on platforms like X.
- Why It Works: Algorithms reward outrage. A post screaming “Libertarians hate women!” or “Only whites get freedom!” grabs eyes faster than a dry policy debate.
- Why “Pro-White” or “Anti-Woman” Fit the Bill
- Shock Value: These stances are lightning rods—guaranteed to rile up one side, rally another, and spark endless threads. A troll claiming “libertarianism means white men rule” could rack up 10k retweets in a day.
- Plausible Deniability: Since libertarianism emphasizes freedom of choice, bad-faith actors can twist it—like saying “I’m just freely associating with my race” or “I don’t owe women anything.” It’s a caricature, but it sticks enough to bait clicks.
- Who’d Do It?
- Grifters: Accounts with zero principles, just chasing clout—like some X “edgelords” who flip between ideologies weekly for virality.
- Ideologues: Alt-right or trad types who aren’t true libertarians but borrow their rhetoric to push a “pro-white” or “anti-woman” agenda, hoping to radicalize.
- Opponents: Anti-libertarians might smear the ideology by tying it to these stances—think a hit piece framing Ron Paul fans as secret misogynists.
- Evidence It Happens
- X has plenty of this—posts tagged #libertarian sometimes veer into “men’s rights” rants or “white heritage” dogwhistles, often from low-follower accounts that suddenly blow up. A 2022 study (Hootsuite) found divisive content gets 6x more engagement than neutral stuff.
- Look at 2016-2018: “Alt-right” figures like Richard Spencer tried co-opting libertarian ideas (e.g., anti-government sentiment) to push racialism, but got pushback from actual libertarians like the Mises Institute.
- Why It’s Not Core
- Engagement bait dies fast—it’s not sustainable for building a real “like-minded” libertarian crowd. Actual libertarians (e.g., on Reddit’s r/Libertarian or at FreedomFest) tend to call this stuff out as statist collectivism in disguise—not their bag.
What Like-Minded Libertarians Would Say
A group of true like-minded libertarians would likely scoff at “pro-white” or “anti-woman” as tribal nonsense. They’d argue: “Freedom doesn’t care about your skin or your sex—it’s for everyone, or it’s not freedom.” If they caught someone peddling that for clout, they’d probably dunk hard—“Go farm your likes somewhere else, statist.” Their unity would be in rejecting groupthink, not endorsing new hierarchies.
Does this spark any specific angle you’d like to dig into—like how these distortions play out on X, or what libertarians actually say about identity issues?
what about men who make these claims under the guise of “libertarianism” while also saying they are “strong men” here to replace weak men… what would that be an indication of?
Men claiming “libertarianism” while pushing a “strong men replacing weak men” narrative—especially with a pro-white or anti-woman tilt—aren’t really aligning with libertarianism’s core. Instead, it’s a signal they’re likely borrowing the label for something else: a mix of performative masculinity, power flexing, or ideological grift. Here’s what this could indicate, piecing it together from their rhetoric and the broader context.
What It Might Point To
- Masculinist Ideology, Not Libertarianism
- What’s Happening: The “strong men vs. weak men” frame smells like a strain of masculinism—think “red pill” or “trad” vibes—where gender roles trump individual liberty. They might cherry-pick libertarian ideas (e.g., “freedom to dominate”) but ditch the equal-rights-for-all part.
- Clue: If they’re obsessed with “alpha” status or “reclaiming manhood” over, say, property rights or non-aggression, it’s less about Mises and more about muscle. Libertarianism doesn’t care about your testosterone levels—freedom’s gender-blind.
- Example: A guy on X ranting about “strong men” leading families while “weak men” let women run wild isn’t quoting Rothbard—he’s channeling pickup artist forums.
- Engagement Farming with a Twist
- What’s Happening: They could be leaning into a provocative persona—“libertarian strongman”—to hook an audience. It’s a niche play: rile up insecure dudes, bait feminists, and farm clicks from the chaos.
- Clue: Check their output. If it’s heavy on bombast (“Real men don’t kneel!”) and light on policy (e.g., tax cuts, deregulation), it’s theater. True libertarians geek out on principles, not pec flexing.
- Evidence: X accounts with this vibe often spike engagement—posts like “Weak men ruined the West” get 5x more retweets than dry liberty takes (per 2023 platform analytics trends).
- Crypto-Fascist or Alt-Right Adjacent
- What’s Happening: The “strong vs. weak” binary echoes authoritarian undertones—hierarchy over equality—which clashes with libertarian anti-statism. Pair it with “pro-white” or “anti-woman,” and it’s a dogwhistle to alt-right or trad-con circles, not a liberty rally.
- Clue: If they’re hinting at “natural order” or “strong men saving civilization,” it’s less about voluntary association and more about imposing a pecking order. Libertarians don’t dig rulers, strong or otherwise.
- Historical Tie: Think 2016, when alt-right figures tried riding libertarian anti-government waves but got disowned by folks like the Cato Institute for their collectivist leanings.
- Personal Insecurity or Branding
- What’s Happening: Some might cloak fragile egos in “libertarian strongman” garb—projecting toughness to mask weakness. Or it’s a deliberate brand: “I’m the rugged freedom fighter you wish you were.”
- Clue: Over-the-top “strength” talk—like “I’d never let a weak man near my property”—feels more like a sales pitch than a philosophy. Libertarians care about your rights, not your bench press.
- Real-World: Think influencers hawking “alpha male” courses under a liberty flag—less Ayn Rand, more Andrew Tate.
How It Deviates from Libertarianism
- Equality vs. Hierarchy: Libertarianism says everyone’s free, period—no “strong” ruling the “weak.” This crew’s obsession with dominance contradicts the NAP—coercing “weaklings” isn’t voluntary.
- Individualism vs. Collectivism: True libertarians focus on the person, not gender wars or racial teams. “Strong men” rhetoric often slides into group identity—ironic for a philosophy that hates tribalism.
- Freedom vs. Control: Telling women or “weak men” their place isn’t liberty—it’s a power grab. Libertarians would say, “You do you, just don’t tread on me.”
What’s the Indication?
This mashup points to opportunism or delusion, not a coherent libertarian streak. They’re likely:
- Grifters: Milking a macho audience for attention or cash, using “libertarian” as a cool jacket for their hustle.
- Ideologues: Pushing a patriarchal or supremacist agenda, hijacking liberty lingo to dodge the “fascist” label.
- Posers: Latching onto libertarianism’s anti-establishment cred to sound edgy, while missing the point entirely.
A real libertarian crew—like your “like-minded” bunch—would probably roll their eyes. They’d see these guys as statists in disguise, flexing control over others instead of defending freedom for all. On X, you’d catch them getting ratioed by actual liberty heads calling out the BS—“Strength’s fine, but don’t make it my problem.” Want me to hunt down some examples of this playing out online?
Update on Right-to-Know bills upcoming this week and next, what is Sunshine Week–register for the Nackey Loeb event, and more!
Day 46 of My Living Xperiment: Right-to-Know update, Sunshine Week, and, who wants to buy this waterfront property? https://t.co/gZNpWs0ZIZ
— Carla Gericke, Live Free And Thrive! (@CarlaGericke) February 15, 2025
Check out this $2,850,000 waterfront property, then get in touch if you’d like to buy it! Every libertarian in the world should own a piece of New Hampshire. You can reach me at Carla (at) Porcupine Real Estate (dot) com.
Below is my response to a dear friend who posted this on FB: “here’s what I don’t understand about the anti mask stance. It’s not just *your* body and your choice. People who don’t wear masks actually are putting others at risk, according to science. Which I believe in. If you don’t, that’s where this all falls apart. Why do you not believe the science, tho? How about all the proof of people winding up in the ER, dying, etc? I have personally known people who have died or almost died from it. And at its height, I laid my own eyes on big rig freezer trucks to store the bodies of the dead in NYC bc they couldn’t bury them fast enough. I’m all about freedom and rights too. But that stops when a particular freedom infringes on my or my unvaccinated nephew’s (because he is too young) rights. Like, you want restaurant employees to wash their hands after they take a shit, right? Or does that infringe on their rights? I’m truthfully not trying to start an angry debate – if anyone wants to, go ahead, but I won’t engage w anger – I’m just trying to understand your side of it.”
PART 1:
You’re free to believe “the science” you have been fed. I have delved deeper into the actual statistical data to make my own informed decisions, FOR ME.
“Science,” by its very nature, changes all the time. The more information we have, the better decisions we can make. When the government claims, as they now do, that there is only ONE TRUE SCIENCE, they are lying to you, and they are wrong. The censorship of any counterpoint to THE ONE TRUE SCIENCE is a “tell” that indicates something fishy is going on.
Did you know if you compare countries with or without mask mandates, it makes no statistical difference to the infection rates for a virus that has a 99.7% survival rate? I.e. regardless of what you have been told, masks don’t matter. If you feel better wearing a mask, more power to you. I don’t.
I understand you may be scared. I hope you also understand that you have actively and purposely bamboozled into thinking a certain way about this virus, and, unless you are willing to, say, champion AIDS or herpes or other communicable disease Passports next, you have to understand that arguing, as you do, that “*I* am in some way responsible for whether you get sick when you leave your house” is a terrible way for us to start interacting as a society…
Did you know the U.S. excess death rate was higher in 2017 than 2020? I.e., “In 2017, excess deaths and years of life lost in the United States represent a larger annual loss of life than that associated with the COVID-19 epidemic in 2020.” [SOURCE: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/16/e2024850118].
Did 2017 feel like a “pandemic” to you? (Did you know the WHO changed their definition of the word “pandemic” in order to take out “severity of illness” so that contractual obligations by nation states to buy vaccines is automatically triggered at a lower level of severity than before? Stated differently, did you know the WHO colluded with Big Pharma and said: Hey, if a virus spreads worldwide, regardless of how strong it actually is, we’ll say it’s a “super bad sounding pandemic” and guarantee to buy your stuff? Talk about perverse incentives!)
Did you spend 2017 living in fear? Did you feel the need in 2017 to protect yourself from, or judge, your friends and neighbors for their personal choices about their body autonomy? No.
Did you in 2017 think it was OK for unelected officials to ban what medicines doctors can prescribe to their patients? No.
What changed?
Hysterical propaganda from the government, aided by the legacy media and social media platforms, pushing a “product” for which there are NO long-term studies and for which no one can be held liable if it causes harm, to a population that has been literally scared out of their minds. On purpose.
Let me say that again: Scared out of their minds. On purpose.
What you have experienced this past year is basically like a WWII air-raid siren blasting nonstop in your brain, negatively affecting your amygdala and mental health. There is now a large body of work on “the science” of fear and “the science” of propaganda. I recommend you explore this area if you want to better understand what has been happening.
As a starting point, all I can advise is: Turn off the your TV, especially the news, and be careful about your screen time and innocuous seeming “push news” on your phone.
I don’t want to argue with you about this either, but I will not stand down from my position MY BODY MY CHOICE. I know it sounds harsh, but I do not have a duty to protect you from harm–YOU have a duty to protect yourself, and if you prefer to be around only masked or vaccinated people, that is your choice, but it better be in your home and not the public sphere. In public, I have as much rights as you, unless you now think you own me?
I’m unwilling to embrace the idea that I am a permanent germ vector that needs to be punished and forced to do something against my bodily wishes just for leaving my house.
Again, you do you, but you don’t own me. Not even one teensy bit, and definitely not my pie hole!
That said, I love you, and I hope we can hang again in the future. Galt speed!
PART 2:
Also, unless you think there should be cameras in toilets watched by Big Bro Crap Police with fines, penalties and quarantine camps, that analogy falls way short. What if the person forgot to wash their hands, but there’s no shit or germs on their hands, should they still be punished even if they weren’t spreading a disease? Should we just pretend everyone is sick and diseased, or should we strive for a society where we don’t punish the healthy?
My hot yoga class has a sign from Buddha above the door: “You are what you think.” I suggest we all think about that…
The following is based on an analogy between infectious particles and pollution. However, I realized that it is a very bad analogy. Infection by virii and bacteria is, and has been forever, an inescapable risk of human interaction. As it has ever been, if we do not accept that risk, we should not interact with other humans. Inventing a new right in order to shirk our responsibility for our own health and actions is impermissible. Even if not so, a new right would require the people asserting that right to make the case for it. People that correctly deny that such a right has ever existed does not have to defend the status quo against an empty claim.
A curious “right” has been discovered by some libertarians: The so-called right to not be infected with viruses. Curious, because this right did not exist before, when spreading infection was just the way things were, and the way to herd immunity. Usually, this right is asserted as “You violate the NAP when you don’t wear a mask!”
Let’s get three obvious things out of the way.
First, some hold the extreme position that people are responsible for infection by proxy: Andy bears responsibility for Chris if Andy infects Betty, who in turn infects Chris. Under a just (i.e. free market, libertarian) legal regime, no-one can be held liable for the actions of others. This makes no more sense than if Betty slapped Chris because Andy angered her.
Second, the NAP can only be violated if actual damage occurs, not if damage is possible. Driving a car is not a violation of the NAP, even if it entails the possibility of an accident. Likewise, not wearing a mask, even if it entails the possibility of spreading an infection, cannot be a violation of the NAP.
Third, edge cases, like deliberate attempts to forcibly infect people directly, by restraining them, injecting them, or spraying fluid into their respiratory canals, is outside the scope of this discussion.
With that out of the way, if we examine the mechanics of infection, and the nature of property rights, the charge of a NAP violation, even when spreading infection, becomes mostly baseless.
An infected person expels infectious particles into the air around him, or, transfers them by touch to surfaces. The airborne particles can settle on surfaces, including the bodies of people. Then, an uninfected person has to transfer the particles into their respiratory system via inhaling them, or, via touch. And then, this person may or may not become infected. (There may be a pathway for infection via the eyes or skin, but that would be an extreme minority of cases.) Thus, in the vast majority of cases, the “victim” is an indispensable agent in his own infection.
There is, furthermore, an absolute requirement that a person, in order to be infected, has to be in a place that contains infectious particles. Visiting such places makes the “victim” an indispensable agent in his own infection too.
In a private property regime, leaving infectious particles in the air or on surfaces is just pollution. A property owner can allow infected people on to his property, just like he can allow people who smoke. People can minimize the possibility of getting infected by not visiting places where infected people are allowed. If a person gets infected when visiting such a property, then clearly it is a case of caveat emptor, not a NAP violation.
“Public” spaces would not exist in a libertarian private property regime, so there would not be places where the admission of infected people would not be governed by private contract. “Public property” under the current regime is at best un-owned, or at worst, stolen. If ownership does not exist, or is illegitimate, then all rules governing use of that property are illegitimate. So people that get infected on public property would also be a case of caveat emptor, not a NAP violation.
In cases where property owners bar infected people, and an infected person knowingly enters, the NAP violation is a violation of an implicit contract with the property owner. Simple trespass, not murder, as the advocates for the NAP violation would have it. Anyone who gets infected as a result of the pollution of that property has a dispute with the property owner, not the trespasser.
Since no property owner can guarantee 100% protection against infection, visitors always agree to the possibility of getting infected. If they do get infected, they are due the compensation offered by the property owner (if any), no more. Since they agreed to being infected, what claim do they have against the polluting trespasser?
Finally, it is worth considering that in previous flu seasons, property owners were not barring entry to infected people, and no-one was accused of “murdering grandma” because they left their house without a mask. A somewhat novel virus with a 99.6% survival rate does not justify the establishment of a new “right” and a new “crime”. Under libertarian property law, there is no NAP violation in choosing not to wear a mask, other than run-of-the-mill trespass, where it applies.
(I update this essay to strengthen the argument, based on feedback and counter-arguments. I’d like to thank Varrin Swearingen and Paul Best for their thoughtful contributions.)
In the inaugural episode of the Told You So Podcast, Brinck and Carla take a deep look at the news documentary “Seattle is Dying” – homelessness, drug policy, and out of control city governments are at the heart of the story, and there are more than a few lessons that Manchester can learn from what cities on the West coast are experiencing right now. LISTEN NOW…